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Cliff HiltyReply: posted - 27 April 2017 15:59
If I understand it correctly Joe, the LOA has to do with the space between 9k and 10k. When they lowered the class B to 9k that left a void not covered by the FAR's hence the LOA we were always allowed within the 30 nautical miles Vail outside of class b and above 10k without transponders but between 9k and 10k over class b was a no no. Same holds true at Tucson above 6 to 10k is a no no over class C.
jsilvasiReply: posted - 27 April 2017 8:26
I hear ya, but then why is it that we are signatories on a letter of agreement (LOA) with PHX ATC which specifically allows gliders without transponders only up to 10,000'MSL (1000' higher than the top of the class B airspace) within the mode C veil ?? If what Collins is saying is true, then we would not need the LOA ! Check it out under Documents/PHX ATC Mode C LOA.

Personally, I'd like to see the actual FAA legal interpretation and some type of pictoral from he FAA rather than just relying on the AOPAs interpretation of the interpretation.

Regards,
Joe Silvasi
QRP

Cliff HiltyReply: posted - 23 April 2017 19:09
Sorry, the first post didn't get it all second one did. Basically you WONT be required to be ADSB compliant in 2020;)
Cliff HiltyReply: posted - 23 April 2017 19:07
pril 1, 2017
By Mike Collins
The FAA’s Office of the Chief Counsel has issued a legal interpretation that clarifies automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) requirements for operators of aircraft without electrical systems. The FAA has mandated ADS-B Out equipage after January 1, 2020, for flight in airspace where a transponder is required today.

In the regulations requiring the use of altitude-reporting transponders, FAR 91.215(b)(3) and 91.215(b)(5) specify exemptions for “any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon, or glider.” However, FAR 91.225(e)—which provides comparable exemptions to the ADS-B Out requirement—omits the phrase “engine-driven,” which has caused significant confusion among pilots and aircraft owners.

“The legal interpretation confirms that the same aircraft excluded from the transponder requirement are excluded from the ADS-B Out equipage requirement,” said Justin Barkowski, AOPA’s director of regulatory affairs. “That means aircraft subsequently equipped with batteries or an electric starter would not be required to equip for ADS-B Out.

“The concern was that the exception expanded the types of aircraft required to equip with ADS-B Out beyond those required to equip with a transponder,” Barkowski added. “AOPA has received several inquiries about what types of aircraft fall within this exception, and has been tracking this issue with the FAA for some time now. This is a favorable interpretation.”

FAR 91.225(e) allows eligible aircraft not equipped with ADS-B Out to operate within 30 nm of a Class B primary airport—basically, within its Mode C veil—while remaining outside of any Class B or Class C airspace. In addition, eligible aircraft can operate beneath Class B and Class C airspace, although they may not operate above Class B or Class C airspace. Aircraft not certificated with an electrical system, including balloons and gliders, may fly as high as 17,999 feet except above Class B or Class C airspace.

lmurrayReply: posted - 22 April 2017 6:39
The Mode 3 is new to me. There are so many specifications in that declaration requires some expert to interpret if we need to buy new transponders in 2020.
jsilvasiReply: posted - 21 April 2017 14:21
In case you were wondering...
§91.215 ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.
(a) All airspace: U.S.-registered civil aircraft. For operations not conducted under part 121 or 135 of this chapter, ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C74b (Mode A) or any class of TSO-C74c (Mode A with altitude reporting capability) as appropriate, or the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S).

(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with an operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 code capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC, or a Mode S capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC and intermode and Mode S interrogations in accordance with the applicable provisions specified in TSO C-112, and that aircraft is equipped with automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability that automatically replies to Mode C interrogations by transmitting pressure altitude information in 100-foot increments. This requirement applies—

(1) All aircraft. In Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace areas;

(2) All aircraft. In all airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted—

(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and

(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and

(4) All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL; and

(5) All aircraft except any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon, or glider—

(i) In all airspace of the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and

(ii) In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-nautical-mile radius of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this part, excluding the airspace below 1,200 feet outside of the lateral boundaries of the surface area of the airspace designated for that airport.

(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with §91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.

(d) ATC authorized deviations. Requests for ATC authorized deviations must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:

(1) For operation of an aircraft with an operating transponder but without operating automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability, the request may be made at any time.

(2) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.

(3) For operation of an aircraft that is not equipped with a transponder, the request must be made at least one hour before the proposed operation.

Regards,
Joe Silvasi
QRP

Cliff HiltyStart of thread: posted - 21 April 2017 8:51
April 1, 2017
By Mike Collins
The FAA’s Office of the Chief Counsel has issued a legal interpretation that clarifies automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) requirements for operators of aircraft without electrical systems. The FAA has mandated ADS-B Out equipage after January 1, 2020, for flight in airspace where a transponder is required today.

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